Visit Djehuty's column >>

DJEHUTYHome Page

Truth is necessary for autonomy.
Add To Watchlist
Articles Posted: 71; Links Seeded: 1110
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/13/2009

Has observing the universe hastened its end?

advertisement

Have we hastened the demise of the universe by looking at it? That's the startling question posed by a pair of physicists, who suggest that we may have accidentally nudged the universe closer to its death by observing dark energy, which is thought to be speeding up cosmic expansion.

Lawrence Krauss of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and colleague James Dent suggest that by making this observation in 1998 we may have caused the universe to revert to a state similar to early in its history, when it was more likely to end. "Incredible as it seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life-expectancy of the universe," says Krauss.

Published to:

What's this?
Who's leading the conversation?
This visualization below allows you to see the impact that each user has on the current conversation. The top row contains the group of users who have had the most impact, the 2nd row the group of users who have had the 2nd most impact (et cetera). Users with similar impact are grouped together, and the average score of the group is shown to the left of the group. The author of the article is also shown on the left, in their corresponding group. Each user's score is based on the number of comments the user has made plus the number of votes their comments have received. The scores are calculated relative one another, so while their absolute value is not particularly important, their relative difference does indicate a larger difference in impact on the conversation.
10
3.3
1.2
{"commentId":1207148,"authorDomain":"djehuty"}

I think this is totally wrong. I believe it's the sort of thing which comes about from misunderstanding "observer" in quantum physics and I'm surprised it gets a run at all. People are in love with the idea that "consciousness" is what makes an observer. "Interaction" is what makes observer, I firmly believe.

{"commentId":1207148,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"djehuty"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:27 AM EST
{"commentId":1207205,"authorDomain":"japark"}

I think you are probably right. Even when we confine ourselves strictly to the quantum world, there is much we don't understand. Projecting quantum physics onto the macro-cosmos is highly likely to introduce additional errors in our understanding.

However, since we have neither observed nor interacted with dark energy (or dark matter either), our speculation is unlikely to have had any effect on reality.

{"commentId":1207205,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"japark"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:30 AM EST
{"commentId":1208370,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}

Dehuty:

I agree with you as well. The concept is flawed, but where is the rest of the article and explanation, without having to buy their subscription?

{"commentId":1208370,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:48 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":1207177,"authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

What are ya gonna do?
It's all relative anyway.

{"commentId":1207177,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:01 AM EST
{"commentId":1207223,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

Normally scientific modules give a logic conclusion, however when scientist can not understand something un-logic factors or a factor are used, later when someone see how un-logic the theories or theory has become a perfectly logic solution takes shape.

If these two guys step back from the problem and just thought about the solution they would realise how bloody daft it is. However I expect they are paid for their research and they have prove they have done something?

{"commentId":1207223,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    Reply#3 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:38 AM EST
    {"commentId":1207266,"authorDomain":"hypnos"}

    Anybody got the whole article so I don't have to get a subscription.

    {"commentId":1207266,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"hypnos"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:07 AM EST
    {"commentId":1207300,"authorDomain":"rickace"}

    What exactly qualifies as "observation"? For example, if an ancient Greek astronomer looked at the area of the sky where modern astronomers have observed dark energy, hasn't he observed it (even though he wasn't aware of what it is that he observed)?

    And who exactly are "we"? Does each individual's observation contribute to the process? If an individual observes more than once, does that make a difference? What effects do observations made by life forms in other galaxies have?

    {"commentId":1207300,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"rickace"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:23 AM EST
    {"commentId":1207941,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

    All very good questions, rickace. I guess we'd have to pay for a subscription to get the whole scary story. Why worry about climate change if we've already doomed the universe by looking at something taboo? This seems like stretching it to me, although observation IS interaction.

    {"commentId":1207941,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}
      #5.1 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:32 PM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":1207492,"authorDomain":"dwight"}

      I will no longer look at the avatars of the folks on Newsvine in order to not lessen their natural lifespan.

      Sounds like too many college professors with too much time on their hands (and perhaps grant money) and not enough time spent with regular folks. If the rest of the article were available (without subscribing to the magazine) it might turn out to make more sense. As is, it sounds like these two fellows probably also believe that photos steal the souls of those who are photographed.

      I hope they don't examine gravity too closely else we might all end up floating off into space...

      {"commentId":1207492,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"dwight"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#6 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:41 AM EST
      {"commentId":1207549,"authorDomain":"blai"}

      Nah, the dark matter isn't really "observed", it's been part of cause-and-effect since its inception.

      {"commentId":1207549,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#7 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:05 AM EST
      {"commentId":1208059,"authorDomain":"ryan-salter"}

      Seems kind of silly to be arguing against something when we can only see the first three paragraphs.

      And why are articles which require a subscription being seeded anyways?

      {"commentId":1208059,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"ryan-salter"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#8 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:44 PM EST
      {"commentId":1208080,"authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

      The last couple of sentences in the article would have been really handy here....Ok, I'll do the work:

      Max Tegmark of [MIT] maintains that the quantum zeno effect does not require humans to make observations of light. "Galaxies have 'observed' ({Me} Note that the word observed is punctuated {Me}) the dark energy long before we evolved." He says, as they were affected by it and were encoding information about it, "When we humans in turn observe the light from these galaxies, it changes nothing except our own knowledge."

      I copied it verbatum, I don't know about the grammar and punctuation either??

      {"commentId":1208080,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}
      • 4 votes
      Reply#9 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:04 PM EST
      {"commentId":1208089,"authorDomain":"djehuty"}

      Yes. That makes all the difference. So the first few paragraphs are the usual pseudo scientific mis-reporting.

      {"commentId":1208089,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"djehuty"}
      • 4 votes
      #9.1 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:11 PM EST
      {"commentId":1208124,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

      This is exactly what I was thinking as I read it too, and was pleased to see the last paragraph.

      I'm worried about New Scientist, they should not be publishing this. Is their quality going down? The print version also has undergone a transformation whereby the advertising is getting ridiculous. The one I'm reading at the moment has a 15 page Ford advert in it :(

      {"commentId":1208124,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
      • 3 votes
      #9.2 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:38 PM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":1208268,"authorDomain":"william-2"}

      This would be a good subject for blackmail, or rather dark matter mail, give me a lot of money or I'll buy a telescope and end the universe'

      Seriously I agree with Djehuty, When dealing with experiments on quantum phenomena observations it seems to assume that the human consciousness interacts directly with the experiment which is not what happens. The human observes what the heavy macroscopic kit is telling him. i.e. the wave function or whatever collapses when the quantum world interacts with the macroscopic world.

      {"commentId":1208268,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"william-2"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#10 - Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:34 PM EST
      {"commentId":1210194,"authorDomain":"glenn-nawrocki"}

      Were doomed ... Dark Matter .... "Observations" ... End Times

      If the article is so good let the Ford [15 page advert pay for it] otherwise wait a week read it on www.bbc.uk.com

      {"commentId":1210194,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"glenn-nawrocki"}
        Reply#11 - Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:10 PM EST
        {"commentId":1211346,"authorDomain":"lisaxian"}

        dark materialism may have profound effects......

        {"commentId":1211346,"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989","authorDomain":"lisaxian"}
          Reply#12 - Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:40 AM EST
          {"canLink":false,"threadId":"179599","isPrivate":false}
          Leave a Comment:
          You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
          As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
          {"threadId":"179599","contentId":"1114989"}
          Start TrackingStart Tracking
          Stop TrackingStop Tracking